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Friday, January 9, 2009

Samgoss outperforms Buffett over past 16 years? A $4 Million Proposal to Samgoss

Further to my article on "The Enigmatic Blogger" here - http://fusioninvestor.blogspot.com/2009/01/enigmatic-blogger.html - "okating" sent me 3 more comments!

As usual, there is MORE childish nonsense - including one that threatens me - which is not worth repeating, but the bit that I find enigmatic is this one - according to him, Sam asked "how come u know my published results are all false?"

Actually, it's simple. Of course, not everything is false, but I will just mention one (out of many examples) which I trust experienced investment professionals can deduce for themselves. The rest should remain unmentioned.

Samgoss beats Buffett returns in Past 16 Years?

1. 16 years ago, Berkshire stock traded around $9,000 per share.

2. Last night, it traded at $94,000.

3. This means that Berkshire stock has grown by approximately 10 times, or 1,000% over the last 16 years.

4. And since Berkshire doesn't pay dividends, never sells his shares and has over 99.9% of his net worth in Berkshire, this means that Buffett himself has "only" managed to obtained approximately 1,000% returns over in the past 16 years.

5. Samgoss on the other hand - if I recalled correctly - claimed that over the last 16 years, his returns was 1,500%! Yes, the link is here - http://samgang.blogspot.com/2008/04/v-299returns-in-26-months-what-is-so.html

Doesn't this mean Samgoss' 1,500% returns beat Buffett's 1,000% return, yes? *grin*

Isn't that simply amazing? *grin*

What a super-fantastic result.


If an external auditor can vouch and certify that this is true, then, I will be most impressed.

Otherwise, it's all just backhand, forehand, left hand, right hand, side spin talk and childish nonsense from Samgoss only isn't it for the last 2 years? *grin*

Additional Reasons why Samgoss claimed his actual returns is higher than 1500%

1. Firstly, you must remember that many professional investors lose to Buffett, whether it is over 5 years, 10 years, 15 years timeframes. But our very own Samgoss claimed to have beaten all of them over last 16 years!

2. You must understand that Samgoss claimed to have taken monies out for various reasons over the past 16 years. In other words, he achieved 1500% returns by NOT compounding his returns!

3. Whereas Buffett compounded everything and still lost to Sam!

4. Buffett is a frugal person. He never sold his stocks. He compound 100% of his earnings. And he still lose to Sam by a mile!

5. Just imagine what Samgoss' returns might have been, had he compounded his returns over the last 16 years. I have no doubt it will be much higher than 1600%! 3,000% is very possible!


So, do you seriously believe Samgoss' claims?

A $4 Million Proposal to Samgoss

Ok. Let's give Sam a chance to prove he is genuine.

If Sam is willing, then, let me make this simple business proposal publicly.

Allow me to hire an external auditor to audit Sam's trades over the past 16 years.

If certified true, then, I will not hesitate to make a business proposal to Samgoss that guarantees that he will not be dissappointed.

He will stand to earn $4 million or more a year in income if he repeats his annual performance over the past 16 years.

A monthly adviser fee of $20,000 per month is a definite insult!

I am firstly a business man, and I really couldn't care less about the past. All I care about is the future.

To kick start this, I only require Sam to do one very simple thing.

Even a teenage child can do this.

All Sam have to do is to write to me to let me know this:

1. His full name
2. His I/C number
3. His contact number
4. The names of the banking and security firms he traded with over the past 16 years that generated 1,500% return.
5. Be ready to sign a document that would authorize an external auditor to investigate and audit his investing record over the past 16 years. I expect 100% cooperation from Sam and no childish nonsense.

I will select the auditor. I will bear 100% of the external auditor costs. ZERO cost to Sam. (If substantial, I reserve the right to refund this from the fund later).

AFTER the external auditor certify and vouch that his results are true, I publicly promise to do the following things:

1. I will personally provide Sam with $0.5 million of my own money to invest.

2. I promise to undertake - on best effort basis - to have my family and friends to contribute another $4.5 million, making a total contribution of $5 million for Sam to invest on our behalf. With an investing record of 1,500% return over the past 16 years, I am confident in raising AT LEAST this much. Easy sale job.

3. I also promise to undertake - on best effort basis - to have everyone I know to contribute another $15 million for Sam to invest. With better than Buffett's record, another EASY job.

* I recalled "dylan" claiming that he just invested $100k into Citibank, so, I believe it should be an easy job to persuade "dylan" to sell that, and invest in Sam.

* I recalled "newbie" claiming that he bought houses and other properties worth millions, so, it should be easy enough to get newbie to come up with $2 million to $4 million for Sam to invest.

* Many other investors here like dorraidd, Dali, and others who would be more than willing to contribute funds to Sam to invest. Dorraiddd is easily worth 8 digits, so, getting him to commit a few million with 100% returns should be doable.

* Also, bullbear - I'm sure he can easily come up with another $0.5 million if not more personally at least.

* Jason ... $0.5 million from him should be doable, and another $5 to 10 million from his hedge fund family with almost a sure chance to earn 50%-100% return in 2009 ...

* mydreamgetrich ... I'm sure his family would consider contributing $0.5 million to $1 million after the auditor certify.

* And there's ivtac, starter, and numerous other chatters here. Many would be willing to contribute at least $100k each after the external auditor certifies Sam's performance in the last 16 years to be genuine and true.

* And let's not forget "rising" who claimed to personally know people with 9 digit net worth. I'm sure getting a few million from these people should be "kacang putih". In short, $15 million here, plus $5 million in 1. and 2. is easy job.

4. Sam does not need to worry about regulations, licensing and all legal stuff. I will take care of this. As usual, we will require business insurance policies on Sam's life - this is just standard business clause, and nothing to be concerned about - the premiums gets charged to the fund. Sam does not have to worry about back-office, compliance, accounting, reporting, etc. - all this will automatically be taken care of.

5. Raising $20 million of funds to invest, AFTER the external auditor certifies 1500% returns over the last 16 years is genuine and true is The Easy Part. We might end up with more funds to invest!

6. This is essentially a hedge fund. Sam can expect 20% standard profit sharing for returns exceeding a low minimum threshold.

7. If he repeats his performance of 100% return per annum, then, 20% x 100% returns x $20 million = $4 million yearly profit for Sam alone!

8. Everything will be legal, Sam will be required to sign a contract.

9. At the right time, AFTER the funds are fully invested, we will arrange for newspapers to interview Sam. We expect this to boost Sam's returns BEYOND 100%!

10. I reserve the right to publish Sam's life story in book and every form. Of course, if Sam wants to keep a low profile, this is negotiable. But everyone knows newspaper exposure helps one to invest easier.

So, this is an open and serious invitation to Sam.

Once I receive items 1. to 4., I will then contact him to arrange a face to face meeting with the external auditor.

I envisage the auditor to give Sam a form to sign to authorize them to contact various banks and security companies to disclose past trade details for their investigation, amongst other things.

This could take a while since we are dealing with 16 years of data, but I am willing to pay 100% for the cost to verify this.

Once everything is completely verified and certified by the external auditor, I will contact Sam again.

We will then proceed to discuss all the necessary details, and I will personally take care of the rest so that Sam can focus on his investing job. All Sam has to worry about is how to generate 100% return in 2009 on an asset base of $20 million, based on his so called FA stock selection methods.

Naturally, we will also hire a bodyguard for Sam - 24 hours per day, 365 days per year. Anyone who can generate 1500% returns in past 16 years is priceless.

And more importantly, once the auditors certify that it is true, we will not prevent him from rubbishing TA methods in the Net. In fact, I will personally lend MY BLOG and CHATBOX for Sam to continue to rubbish TA methods! That's a promise from me!

So, Sam, how?

$4 million profit to you every year!

ZERO concern yes?

Send me NOW your full name, your I/C number, your contact number, the name of the banks and security firms that you have traded over the past 16 years that generated your 1500% returns for auditing.

And to all of "Sam's supporters":

I don't want to hear any more childish nonsense on anything else!

All I want to hear from you is why your "sifu" did not accept my $4 Million proposal yesterday.

I look forward to hearing from Samgoss personally by Monday latest.

Otherwise, the entire world knows that Samgoss is a FAKE.

Everyone will be asking why Samgoss turns down a $4 million per year offer.

Sam's records say that his fund is less than $1 million today. Why would anyone blog so much like he does, but doesn't accept a $4 million per year offer?

He doesn't have to do anything different.

So, I sincerely hope Samgoss is genuine. Otherwise, that would be extremely dissappointing, because I'm also finding it tough to generate a fraction of Samgoss' returns ... so, for everyone's sake, let's pray that Samgoss is genuine and NOT a fake.


Jasonred79 said...

... What are you talking about Seng?

Berkshire's price may be that amount, but it's net asset value has been slashed BADLY in the last year... so I would say his return in terms of NAV was perhaps less than 800%.


Put me on the audit team. I don't trust the majority of Malaysian audit firms. (having worked on their teams or with friends who worked there)

If I like what I see, I will personally put another RM2 million into this fund. And will attempt to put RM20 million in from friends and family.

You must realize that Sam has shown that he is the BEST fund manager on Earth, since he has apparently made fantiastic returns despite 1997 crisis, dot com crash, and current crash.

Remember that Warren was trading the American market... Sam was trading the Malaysian market. If you compare their performance to their local index benchmarks, Sam appears EVEN MORE incredible.


My only question is: if we have this priceless living gem right here in Malaysia, who needs TTB and ICap? Who needs any of those local funds of any sort?

Seng, you think far too small. If Sam is really this godlike deity who can generate such returns, I can pretty much guarantee you that he can form a RM1 billion dollar fund, EASILY. ... Just walk into any CIMB or whatever Unit Trust, you can easily steal 20% of their biggest clients.


RM4 million a year not good enough for you Samgoss? ... how about RM2billionx15%pa x 20% profit share = RM60 million per year? I am sure I can easily negotiate an extra RM5 million a year salary too.

And all you have to do is give Seng&me access to all those figures and accounts. Sounds so simple, right?



Jasonred79 said...

I hereby withdraw my offer after reading sam's blog:

"First of all, did I ever said I beat warren buffet in my posting ? where ? don’t twist d story ..ok ? ..come back to my 1,500% returns in 16 years …K..let me teach u what is 1 + 1 = 2 lar ha ha… I started my shares investment in 1992 with initial capital of 12K+ , as known to u guys, 1993 is a super bull year , KLCI rose from 450 to 1,314 within a year , Idris shot up from RM 0.50+- to RM8.80, same goes to Aokam from RM0.80 to RM 16.00+, repco >RM100 ! for one to make millions or >1000% returns in 1993 is definitely not a problem ( ask those old birds who involved in 1993 if u doubt ) ! Hence , I hv made about 135K+_ in that particular year !

12K to 135K -= >10 times or > 1000% ! ( see d attached picture). So..what is so difficult 4 me to achieve another 500% returns from 1995 to 2007 ? look at my 2007 result , this year alone I hv acheieved about 299% returns ( as per attached picture ) ! so ..is that so difficult to make 1500% returns in 16 years ?? ha ha … as I said , y d length of our fingers r not d same (十个手指有长短)!? y some can be so rich y some cant ? y some can be doctor n lawyer , y some cannot ? sour seng ohh sour seng , u cant do it doesn’t mean we can't do it oso ! faham ? ha ha"

My concern here is: he claims he made 1000% in his first year of trading.

Removing this outlier, we arrive at an 50% return on total capital over 15 years.

Which is rather sub-standard.

So, I no longer have any interest in giving my investment capital nor to convince my friends and family to invest.

I am officially withdrawing my offer.