Fusion Investor Chatbox

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Monday, January 12, 2009

Update on $4 Million proposal to Samgoss - A Second $8 Million Proposal

Further to my $4 Million per year proposal to Samgoss, fellow blogger Moolah has also blogged on my Public Offer here - http://whereiszemoola.blogspot.com/2009/01/local-malaysian-blgger-claims-markets.html

Moolah's Comments

1. "An extremely profitable proposal that Seng has made."

[Seng comment: Yes, I want to emphasize that $4 Million EACH YEAR is a LOT of money to turn down.

Does Sam currently earns $4 Million EACH YEAR?

Seriously Sam, tell me HOW MUCH do you earn EACH YEAR in the last 5 years?

I can guarantee you more - MUCH MUCH MORE - than what you earned in the last 5 years.

Of course, you'll need to provide proof of you past 5 years income at the very least.]

2. "Of course it's a double sworded as this proposal also equates to a massive challenge for Sam to prove that he is not a fake."

[Seng comment: I want to emphasize that whilst it's a massive challenge, it's very simple action for Sam.


Because I am only interested in The Truth.

If the past results are there, I want to emphasize that he doesn't need to fear anything, or need to to do anything more.

Just let his past results speaks for themselves.

The audit will merely discover and report that truth.

You see, when you apply for a $40,000 per annum job (let's not talk about $4 Million per annum job), it is standard procedure for you to fill an H.R. form to state your name, your I/C number, your contact phone number, etc.

In this job, because it relates to a hedge fund investing, your track record is important. So, it's only standard procedure to audit your past claims, so, one needs to see your past trades and verify it with your both the securities firm and the banks. With audited data, we will then do more analysis and come to our own conclusion. Sam, you don't need to try to explain how you did it.

I have no doubt Sam will have made past withdrawals from his stock account (to buy property, car, eat abalone, shark fin soup, etc. as he claimed), so, I want to verify in the audit that money has been withdrawn from the stock broking firm to his bank. Everyone can lie about anything, but PAST financial transactions that has been filed to the regulators/Bank Negara - in theory - cannot lie.

All my request is basic standard info for this type of job. Nothing special.

For $4 Million PER YEAR contract offer, why doesn't Sam want to tell me BASIC, STANDARD data?

What is he afraid of?

What is he hiding?

What is he not telling us?]

3. To be honest, 1500% in 16 years is such a record to be proud off.

[Seng comment: Agree absolutely. I want to add that he is actually much better than that, because in that 16 years, he has withdrawn substantial amount of monies regularly and still achieve his 1,500%]

3. Perhaps iCapital, Tan Teng Boo, should hire Sam here to be the chief investment manager for his closed end fund.

[Seng comment: Yes, I must reluctantly agree. They are my competitors, because every fund manager with a little bit of smarts (doesn't need to be as clever as Buffett) will immediately jump to see if they can hire / create new positions for this super-investor, if his results are genuine.]

4. And if Sam record is as genuine as he proudly proclaim, won't you even want to invest in his funds?"

[Seng comment: Agreed. That's my original proposal, which is specially intended to let EVERYONE, including and ESPECIALLY Sam's followers to benefit from this proposal.

Currently, there are TOO MANY real life problems to follow Sam's call-
1. It takes a lot of constant monitoring and work to follow his convoluted blog timely.
2. There is time-lag from the time he buy/sell to the time he blogs.
3. By the time you want to buy or sell something, the time lag means price will have gone up or gone down.
4. Sam's backhand - which means you misses out.
5. Sam keeping his best ideas to himself.
6. 100 other reasons and too long to blog about it.

So, why should anyone - using Sam's own words in his blog - "like ck5354, Dylan, ccdev, newbies n ivtac" accept inferior method now?

So, I came up with this idea, so that EVERYONE now have a chance to get EXACTLY what Sam gets, and EVERYONE in his blog should be HAPPY and join my suggestion.

I really hope to hear from "ck5354, Dylan, ccdev, newbies n ivtac" that they like this idea.

Isn't this a good idea? If it's not good, why is it not good? Write to me, and tell me objectively and concretely why it's not a good idea.

You see, if we can pool Sam's own money TOGETHER with EVERYONE's, then, Sam's work is easier also.

He doesn't need to blog anymore. With his spare time, he can use my chatbox and my blog to continue to rubbish TA methods and to rubbish STOP LOSSES!

Yet, so many of Sam's "followers" are against this business proposal!

I am genuinely dissappointed that Sam's followers have not thought about Sam's BEST interest.

If they did, they all will be asking Sam to accept my business proposal.

Sam makes the Most Money out of my proposal.

His supporters will make MORE money than they did before.

Everyone here also Makes Money!


Isn't this logical?]

Jason Ups His Offer to $20 Million above my estimation

Jason responded with an even bigger offer than I estimated - https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=935072059836759128&postID=6590073621444877083.

1. "Put me on the audit team. I don't trust the majority of Malaysian audit firms. (having worked on their teams or with friends who worked there)

[Seng comment: No problem. I will also be on the audit team myself.]

2. If I like what I see, I will personally put another RM2 million into this fund. And will attempt to put RM20 million in from friends and family."

[Seng comment: Jason, I am sure ALL of Sam's followers will thank-you from the bottom of their heart for your support!

With your extra contributions, Sam can now look forward to $8 Million Income in 2009!]

Sam turned down my $4 Million Offer

1. See his blog here. http://samgang.blogspot.com/2009/01/v-wow-4-mil-offer-by-sour-seng-ah-seng.html

2. From a business perspective, I am extremely dissappointed with his childish response. There are MORE nonsense, and no serious consideration at all. No serious business man would respond like this in real life.

3. He responded by showing what he claimed to be his Public Bank pass book voluntarily to everyone.

a. How do we know this is his passbook and not someone else's without knowing his full name or his I/C number, and have this verified with Public Bank management?

b. Why show just one snapshot? Why not show everything continuously over the past 16 years to the external auditor in confidence? The external auditor can verify with Public Bank management.

Sam, do you see the problem with your response?

Sam's Compounded Annual Returns are MUCH higher than 1500%

You must remember that:

1. In 1992, Sam starts with $12k, as he said in his latest article above.

2. In 2008, Sam's fund is around $700k?

3. The yearly return = (700,000 / 12,000) ^ (1/16) = 28.93% per annum.

4. However, his true compounded yearly return would have been much higher than this, because over the years, he has withdrawn monies for the following purposes:

a. He purchased in his own words "properties". (Yes, he mentioned this more than once in his blog). KL properties - especially when renovated so nicely in his blog - is not cheap.

b. He purchased a BMW car, and very likely more than just one car over the last 17 years. BMW cars are not cheap like Proton cars ...

c. He withdrawn his fund to pay for his living expenses. Living in KL - even on poor taste - is not cheap.

d. He has expensive taste - just look at the food he boasts about.

e. Even if you conservatively estimate $4,000 per month to live in KL, which is EXTREMELY cheap, already, this is $50,000 per year, or $800,000 over last 16 years. Who pays for his living expenses? Is this from his investment earnings?

f. Conservatively, if you believe his blog, he would have spent additional $2 million to $3 million or even more just on items a., b., c., d., e. over the last 16 years.

g. What about sex? Do you think he pays for that or do you think he has a girlfriend or a wife? Add that to the expenditure.

h. Which means, he must have used just $12,000 to generate say $3 million to $4 million OR MORE at the least in the last 16 years.

h. But if he had compounded his returns, it would be much bigger than $3 million to $4 million at the least. Imagine if he had no spending? The monies saved in earlier years would have grown even more!!

i. So, my wild, rough guess is something like 100% per annum. He should be able to achieve this very easily, especially, when he has earned 299% over 26 months, or more than 115% per annum.

j. Do you see why this guy is MUCH BETTER than Warren Buffett?


This guy deserves to be investigated and audited in detail.


He claims to be THAT good, I don't know of anyone else on earth that comes close to his results.

All newspapers - not just Malaysian, but the Entire World - must know about him.

So, Sam, I am giving you a 2nd chance to have your results audited.

Why can't we deal like business-men?

I want to be your Manager.

Business-men don't need to rubbish each other.

I am not upset with you at all. I'm annoyed at your childish nonsense, but I'm never upset at you.

I just see a wonderful - once in a lifetime business opportunity - in you. If all your claims are true. We can make money together. I see GLOBAL OPPORTUNITY IN YOU!

My offer is genuine, because throughout my entire life, I have NEVER met anyone with a record like yours.

I have a close friend who is a Chief Investment Officer in a global financial organization based overseas (and his organization also has some investments in KLSE), and he has never heard of anyone with a record like you who managed to achieve what you did without leverage.

Conversely, he has seen, heard, and met far too many people who boasts like you, but in reality, are just "KOSONG", or are part of a syndicate.

So, if you are genuine, let's do business together, and let's start by having the results of yours audited.

Alternative Proposals If You don't want to work for me

With your talent Samgoss, I have MANY alternative proposals for you even if you don't like $8 Million PER YEAR!

Even if you don't want to work for me, but you can work for someone else, I also have MANY BUSINESS PROPOSALS for you! E.g. just look at the biography by Alice Schroeder on Buffett called "The Snowball". I want to get someone like Alice to write a biography on Samgoss life AFTER we audit!

We can discuss ANYTHING. But let's audit your results first. No need to fear anything if it's true. There's an English saying that says "Why would I want to kill the goose that lays the golden egg?" Samgoss - you ARE my Golden Goose!

I hope to hear a serious response this time.


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